Shapiro Said it Best...

[Dogday]

Over the years I've looked at Thome as an ambassader of the game. Somebody who's never forgotten his roots and represented the game in such a positive manner in every single aspect. I remember years ago in the all star home-run hitting contest how he looked like such a little kid just being amazed and having so much fun. At the same event I saw Junior Griffey going through the motions acting like it was a bother for him to be there. As a fan I understand the economics of the game and where it's going but to me you do everything, and I mean everything, to keep a guy like Thome. He's what's good about baseball and I haven't seen the Indians rise to that level. Thome is about as close to a sports hero in Cleveland as you can get and this will be a very bad baseball team without him.

[Alex]

Shapiro said it best... by Alexxx, 11/27/02

"We offered the most money we could to Jim and still be able to bring a championship to Cleveland".

I believe that to be true, I only hope Thome and his agent see that reality, rather than only who has offered the most money.

Every extra million per year Thome is given, escalates the overall team payroll by between 5-10 million because all other ballplayers will base their salary request on what Jim is making.

No one else may ask for anywhere near as much, but it becomes easy to say "I am worth at least half of what Jim makes"....So this isn't about a million or two a year difference, it's about how the highest salary on any team dictates how much every other ballplayer on that team asks for.

Surely Jim knows this?

[viper123]

To tha point shouldn't 11-12 million a year be enough for a guy who supposedly loves the game and knows his roots. Jim Thome has a chance to win back some fans for major league baseball by turning down a team throwing money at him, and take a great contract that will still take care of his family. We did not low ball Jim, this is a good offer, if he passes I hope he doesn't try some **** about how he wants to win now and that it wasn't about the money. If he does that **** he will have lost that innocence and my respect with it.

[Alex]

Good points both of you.

Do you realize that if Thome gets an extra 1-2 million from the Indians per year, it will cost the Indians an amount EQUAL to ANOTHER Jim Thome over the course of JIm Thome's contract!

If the whole team payroll begins to eek up based on one very high salary, and the teams payroll goes up an extra 5-10 million a year as other players want to be paid a percentage of what JIm makes, 5 years later, the team has paid out an extra 25-50 million to ballplayers OTHER than Jim Thome.!

Two, Two Jims in one!

IN essence, those couple of million a year extra Thome desires is like a 100% luxury tax on the Indians alone!

Don't forget, we will want to resign a player like Brandon Phillips long term, and he will look at what Jim is making. So three years from now, a Brandon Phillips contract renewal escalates team payroll well past JIm's retirement.

The salary escalation effect can carryover for the next decade for every million dollars over 11-12 million that we give Jim.

[Dogday]

I will accept that the Indians have made Thome a "fair" offer. An offer that will let Jim live comfortably the rest of his live. If he truely wants to retire an Indian he'll take it. I just don't like how the Indians are screaming poverty over this. It's amazing after all of the tens of millions that is being saved with all the dead weight contracts going away, that money is an issue. Why hope and pray that players such as Brandon Phillips, Milton Bradley, and Victor Martinez become home grown superstars if you dread the day they become top line stars and you have to pay them as such. I truely feel that the Indians have one of the most respectable organizations in all of major league sports but I think they're crying wolf of this money issue. By the way great feed back by everybody on this forum.

[Alex]

Part of what made the Indians great in the mid late 90's was after they signed several of their youngsters to contracts, they were able to sign several stars at around 5 million to 7.5 million a year.

And we were selling out back then. Well, if we continue to sell out, how many stars can we afford at 13-15 million a year, and then you have the second wave of ballplayers who won't be stars but will be asking for 7.5 million a year anyway.

So how do we double or triple our revenue stream so that we can afford
more than one Jim Thome on our team? And keep in mind, only one ballplayer out of top fifteen salaries in either league made it to the league Championship game.

Major League Baseball would have more of a guarantee of competitiveness if they could cap the highest salary on the team at 12 million. But that won't happen.

I keep reading these rumors that Jim really wanted to play for a Chicago team. At this point, I wouldn't mind saving the money and getting the first base prospect from Chicago instead.

Maybe Jim will lead by example for us. He'll hit 60 homers this upcoming year and inspire the rest of the team. Here's hoping.

[Dr. Robert]

I wonder why the White Sox didn't make an offer. They could dump Thomas and have the money for it.

[The RotoTribe]

I don't believe Thome will drive up salaries. Salaries were driven up by paying guys like ARod $24 million a year and Manny Ramirez $20 million a year. They were also driven up by giving guys like Burnitz $11.5 million a year and Mondesi $16 million a year.

On the other hand, I think the offer to Thome is more than reasonable. It's time for the have nots to stop trying to compete with Steinbrenner and the Atlanta Braves. The Cleveland offer to Thome is great, but if Thome takes the Phillies offer, so be it. I really don't think Dolan is as well off as Jacobs was, so this offer is really probably all he can afford. Sure, he offered Ramirez a fortune, but if Ramirez had signed with the Tribe, then I don't think he would have dumped players this past season. I think Dolan would have tried to win one more championship.

If Thome doesn't sign, there are plenty of predcedents for the Tribe to follow to try and become respectable again. Oakland, Minnesota and Anaheim are three teams that have been successful despite lower payrolls. Sure, KC, Detroit and Pittsburgh have not been successful, but maybe that's because of poor player evaluation, not because they were not willing to spend.

[Alex]

I disagree for the following reason, Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire. Both settled for "reasonable" amounts and they are the premiere markee players.

AROD has already offered to give back or restructure
his money because he is realizing no other star will want to play for Texas and make a fraction of what he makes.

Look no further than Juan Gonzalez, who had the worst season of his career, and frankly, I don't think he even cared.

Pudge won't take 8-10 million a year with Texas, not with AROD making 25 million a year. The AROD signing was truly the dumbest signing in the history of the league.

Even with AROD putting up MVP type numbers, it doesn't matter, he's overpaid by about 10 million a year.

[SmokinLizzies]

I agree with most of what you're all saying. However, you have to look at it from a players point of view. When teams do good, they make money. (it's that simple) Who should make the money, the players or the owners?

*I do think the AROD deal was madness though*

But Thome is a Cleveland sports hero. Would you rather see a team that s.u.c.k.s, or a team that s.u.c.k.s that has Jim Thome? He won't raise the bar, look at what he had to do to get the money. If younger players want that kind of money, they'll have to earn it, like he has. I'm not just talking about number here either. He's a great guy, who knows there's more to life then baseball. He even lives in Aurora, Ohio. That's no richy city.

(He does have a big house though [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

I want Jim back, I want him to play here, I want him years from now to manage here. He's an Indian, He's Cleveland, and Dolan knows this. Even with his short term owning the team. Late wednesday night (11.27) the team made a 3rd offer to Jim. Even after saying, they were done making deals.

Thome said he would make a choice on Thanksgiving, but since the Indians made a last min push. He''ll wait 'till Monday.

We didn't need Belle, we didn't need Manny, but I'm D.A.M.N sure we need Thome.